Drilling Down on Steve Jobs

We've said it many times before: if you really want to understand a candidate you must dig deeper than their initial answers. It's called "drilling down", and while it may sound interrogatory, it simply means understanding the Who, What, Where, When, Why and How to an answer. The exercise has equal value in sales situations: solicit this information from your customers and it becomes much easier to address their needs.

A good example is provided by Bill Conaty and Ram Charan, authors of "The Talent Masters". Imagine how helpful it would be to understand Steve Jobs... as a candidate or customer... to the degree described in this post.

The Naked Interview

The next time you enter the interview arena– as a hiring manager or candidate– you might want to try getting naked first. OK, not in the literal sense but as described in the business bestseller “Getting Naked”, by Patrick Lencioni. Lencioni’s book addresses the three things that tend to sabotage client loyalty:

1. Fear of losing the business
2. Fear of being embarrassed
3. Fear of looking inferior

The solution: using transparency and authenticity as the foundation for consulting or selling environment– or, as Lencioni says "getting naked". No more posing, posturing or saying “the right things” in order to make the sale. His recommendation is to focus on understanding a client’s needs, helping them find solutions and speaking the truth – even when it might put the relationship at risk.

The book affirmed something we’ve felt is wrong with the interview methods many companies rely on. See if this sounds familiar:

• A candidate is invited to interview with a company. Other than knowing the position to be filled and essential requirements of the job, nothing more is shared in advance. The candidate is expected to enter the interview arena “blind,” hoping for the best and speculating on what might be asked.
• The interview itself is largely a pop-quiz process with the company representative asking the questions, the candidate answering.
• The candidate leaves the interview clueless on how well he/she might fit the position.
• On the way home, the candidate invariably thinks of answers – if only they'd had more time to think about it.

That last point is especially true of behavioral interviews, where candidates face questions beginning with “Tell me about a time when...” and, for whatever reasons, none of the best answers spring to mind. Too much is left to spontaneous discovery. As a result, both parties potentially lose: candidates fail to share their best experiences and companies miss an opportunity to learn about the candidate.

Our solution is contrary to most interview formats. Borrowing from Lencioni’s theme, we call it the “Naked Interview.” It’s purpose is to conduct the interview in a more transparent manner. No pop quizzes. No trick questions. No trying to see how candidates react under pressure situations. In fact, we suggest giving candidates an outline of the interview in advance, including the top two or three objectives for this position. Here’s how it might play out...

The Naked Interview

Acme Manufacturing is interviewing candidates for a VP Sales for their East Coast Region. The the top objectives for the new RVP Sales in his/her first year of employment:

• Help select and implement a new CRM program.
• Identify and assess expansion into three new markets.
• Assess the abilities of the incumbent sales team and determine if and where changes should be made.

Dan Smith, a Regional Sales Manager with another company, is one of the candidates being considered. A few days before the interview Dan receives this call:

“Dan, this is Bill Jones at Acme Manufacturing. We’re looking forward to meeting with you and want to give you a heads-up on some key things we want to discuss our time together. Besides the typical sales management duties, we have three overriding objectives we need this person to accomplish in his/her first year in the role:

1. The first involves CRM programs. We want to spend some time talking about your experience with CRM programs, what’s worked and not worked, etc.

2. Second, we want to investigate expanding our services into some new markets. So, any experience you have with identifying new markets. assessing their potential and supervising the start up operations will be of interest to us.

3. Third, we’re not sure if our sales team needs upgrading or simply better training. Therefore, we’ll want gain a solid understanding of your experience in terms of hiring, training and assessing sales teams.

4. Last, I want to reserve some time to answer questions you might have. Give some thought to that and send me your questions in advance of our meeting. I want to make sure I’m prepared to answer them thoroughly.”

Can you see how this strategy might reduce stress on both sides of the interview table? The candidate enters the interview arena looking forward to the visit, not anxious. And, the hiring manager has a much better opportunity to understand the candidate's experience as it pertains to their key objectives.

Traditionalists might say this gives the candidate too much information on the front end, raising the potential for researched or canned answers. However, since we’re basing the discussion on “real time” experience... i.e. the candidate’s past experiences... it is consistent with behavioral interviewing practices. And, drilling down on each topic will ferret out puffed-up answers. Look at the number of questions we can spin the CRM discussion topic alone:

• Was the program in place when you started or implemented afterwards?
• If after, were you part of the selection or design team? Walk us through that process. How long did it take to implement? What were the challenges?
• Is it better to buy an off-the-shelf program or develop from scratch, and why?
• What impact did having a CRM program make? How were you able to quantify the value?

Let’s face it, ask enough questions about any single topic and the truth will rise to the surface soon enough. A candidate’s direct experience and knowledge will become readily apparent.

Appropriate for Candidates, too!

Candidates can steer this process too, although to a lesser degree. If you find yourself headed to an interview, ask the hiring manager to describe the top two or three objectives for the new hire in the first year of employment. Then, be prepared to make comparisons to your own experience and how it speaks to those objectives. Or, ask what he/she most wants to learn about you in your time together. Either way, this will go a long way to enhance the interview experience for both parties.

Our Favorite Interview Question

If you've been in the workforce for any period of time, you've either asked or been asked some great questions in an interview. Here's one of our favorites, why we like it and what we look for:

"What are the two worst business decisions you've made and what was their impact on the company's profit statement or balance sheet?"

One of our clients posed this question to finalists on a C-level search we handled more than fifteen years ago and we've used it ever since. On searches that don't involve P&L roles, it can be modified to "your area of responsibility?". We look for two things in the answer:

Authenticity & Objectivity. It's amazing how often we hear people skirt this question with "Gee, I can't think of any really bad decisions I've made". Meaning he/she is (A) uncomfortable talking about his/her past mistakes, (B) a low risk taker, (C) lacking in awareness or (D) way overdue for a doozy of a mistake. Pick any of the four options and it's safe to say you probably don't want that person joining your team.

A Proportionate Response. Is the answer proportionate to the candidate's past level of authority and responsibility? A C-level candidate should cite a much more significant example than a mid-level manager and vice versa. If it doesn't match up, then the four reasons above are probably at play again.

A prime example of this surfaced from a candidate we interviewed for the search above. He told us about a large project he bought for his company several years earlier. It was going through a lenghty entitlement process and the front-end investment was growing each day. It was clear the project would be a home run once it cleared entitlements but with a difficult township involved, it was uncertain when that would occur.

This candidate was pressed by his CEO to make a decision on staying the course and hope the project cleared entitlements (or) selling it now with partial entitlements and get out. Either way, it was clear his future with the company was on the line if things went south. His gut told him to stay the course, but logic told him to play it safe and sell the project. He went with the latter and while not a home run, his company still made several hundred thousand dollars profit.

So, where's the grand mistake? Our candidate went on to explain that soon after the sale, the township elected a new mayor that was more pro-development. The project cleared entitlements on the next pass and went on to become the #1 selling project in the state for several years. As the candidate put it, the "lost income opportunity" was in the multi-million dollar range. In the interest of "playing it safe" he cost his company millions of dollars and recognized that.

Point: Many candidates might not have considered this a "bad decision"; after all, the project still made a profit. However, this candidate saw beyond the short term profit to recognizing (and admitting) the missed long term income opportunity. We found his candor insightful and refreshing. So did our client, who hired him as their new President.

OK... your turn. Tell us about your favorite interview questions and we'll share them in a future post.

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The Talon Group
Bob Piper, Rodney Hall, Tony Cleveland & Jean Mason